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< Advocacy ~ Southern Connector |
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Snak Shak
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Posted: Fri Mar 19, 2010 9:30 pm |
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Pretends the bricks at St. Anthony Main are the PaveJoined: Sat Jan 05, 2008 10:35 pmPosts: 2924Location: So.MPLS
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On Sunday, March 21, The City of Minneapolis will be hosting a working group tour for bicyclists to experience and discuss the proposed Southern Bike Connection. The project runs along multiple streets. The Southern Connector is (generally) a north-south corridor between 24th Street and Highway 62, near and along Bloomington Avenue. Portions of the project will likely include bike lanes on busier streets. A bicycle boulevard option is being explored on 17th & 18th Avenue S. A bicycle boulevard includes items such as: • Traffic calming • Improvements to busy crossings • Minimized stopping for bicycles In the interest of full disclosure, this project would be an absolute God-send to me, personally. I generally yo-yo up and down Park and Portland on my commute for lack of a better alternative, and I have wished for a more laid back north-south route since moving back to the Twin Towns in 2006. The side streets are okay, but the busier streets (such as Bloomington), can feel pretty bike-hostile as you get further north, and the side streets can be pretty slow due to stop signs on ever corner. If you have the time, please meet at the 18th Ave. bridge over Midtown Greenway on Sunday, March 21 at 1:00 to join the group. I will most definitely be there. Please, please support this project!! A map of the proposed Southern Connector can be found here.
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hereNT
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Posted: Sun Mar 21, 2010 9:55 am |
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Site AdminJoined: Mon Jul 24, 2006 4:59 amPosts: 6907
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Bump - this is today!
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Snak Shak
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Posted: Fri Mar 09, 2012 5:20 pm |
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Pretends the bricks at St. Anthony Main are the PaveJoined: Sat Jan 05, 2008 10:35 pmPosts: 2924Location: So.MPLS
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Experimental medians were installed at the intersection of 17th Ave. So. and 42nd Street recently. This is one of the most difficult crossings on the Southern Connector bike boulevard. The car traffic on 42nd Street travels about 35 mph and there is a short, steep hill that makes the sight lines bad at this crossing. I have been surprised more than once by a fast moving car trying to cross here. I was riding around there this morning and shot some photos and a short videoof the intersection to show the positive effect this median is having on traffic. The cars barreling west from Cedar Ave., see the median and hit the brakes and slow down to about 25 mph at the crossing. Nice. Here is the temporary median: Experimental Median by Snak Shak, on Flickr And here is the bad sight line from where a bike would stop if they were heading south on 17th Ave. View from 17th Ave. Crossing 42nd St. by Snak Shak, on Flickr You can call 311 and give this median positive feedback so that it stays. This really is a dicey crossing and I would not want to do this with kids, myself.
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jim_h
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Posted: Sat Mar 10, 2012 1:03 pm |
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| Could use a bike fitJoined: Wed Apr 16, 2008 3:53 pmPosts: 1016Location: Old Cyclists' Home
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I used to live at 42nd and 17th. I ride down 42nd a lot, in preference to the "bike boulevard" on 40th * because the light at 40th and Cedar is so paralyzingly slow). Current traffic speeds on 42nd are too high for a city street and this should help. I wish we could slow down Portland and Park as well.
_________________ Probably too old to be posting here but what the heck... |
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eazydp
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Posted: Tue Mar 13, 2012 11:50 pm |
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Bunny-hopperJoined: Fri Apr 22, 2011 1:42 pmPosts: 6Location: HPDL
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Thanks for sharing the video. I will definitely call 311 and provide input. I have taken 40th bike blvd a few times, most recently on Sunday, and am generally not pleased with the experience. I hope that the city staff can learn from a few of the glaring mistakes. First off, since these are the longer N/S blocks, so I hope they can try and keep at least 2 blocks between all stop signs. Secondly, stop signs at the bottom of hills, this need to be examined. I understand there is also a degree of danger having bikes zoom through the intersection at 20-30 MPH, but the stop on 40th St/19th Av is just painful.
On less practical but more of a dream type note, I'd love for some real commitment from a neighborhood / city planning perspective to create a true Greenway instead of one of these projects. Everyone loves Milwaukee Ave, would it be possible to duplicate something which is bike/ped only? Seems like RiverLake would be a better target than the Southern Connection, since the homes on the streets are corner lots for the most part.
I'm excited to see this project come to fruition. If it is indeed a safe, quick route, it will likely become part of my commute.
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Snak Shak
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Posted: Wed Mar 14, 2012 7:29 am |
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Pretends the bricks at St. Anthony Main are the PaveJoined: Sat Jan 05, 2008 10:35 pmPosts: 2924Location: So.MPLS
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eazydp wrote: I hope that the city staff can learn from a few of the glaring mistakes. First off, since these are the longer N/S blocks, so I hope they can try and keep at least 2 blocks between all stop signs. Secondly, stop signs at the bottom of hills, this need to be examined. I understand there is also a degree of danger having bikes zoom through the intersection at 20-30 MPH, but the stop on 40th St/19th Av is just painful.. I here you, but on-street projects are always a compromise and the needs/wants of residents, emergency vehicles and other users that need to factored in as well. There was a lot of discussion and negotiating on the RiverLake project (I think this was the first bike boulevard ever in MPLS), and the challenge was balancing cost while improving the route(s) for cycling and walking. The worst of the stop signs at the bottom of the hills are at parks (Phelps and Sibley) and I think concern was cyclists zooming through intersections where kids are going to/from the park. I would like to see those signs get turned or removed, but I doubt that will happen because of this parks. I think the route is friendlier for Southern Connector (flatter, fewer stop signs and only two crossings that are kind of challenging (Lake St. and 42nd). There is a stop light already at Lake, so that saves a lot of $$ and the median at 42nd improves things for both peds and cyclists, so I think this one will be a good route.
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jim_h
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Posted: Wed Mar 14, 2012 4:11 pm |
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| Could use a bike fitJoined: Wed Apr 16, 2008 3:53 pmPosts: 1016Location: Old Cyclists' Home
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Stop signs at the bottoms of hills are a complete non-starter (excuse the pun) for bike routes. If people are seriously concerned about cyclists hitting kids, then think I it's the wrong place for a bike boulevard, the intent of which is to facilitate cycling. If anything the sign makes things worse because it leads people to expect that bikes will stop, whereas in reality many will run it (I do, if I don't see any pedestrians or traffic at the intersection). It's like the flashing yellow "caution" signs at bike crossings which some drivers will observe, some not. Conflicting expectations and inconsistent behavior lead to accidents.
_________________ Probably too old to be posting here but what the heck... |
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Snak Shak
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Posted: Wed Mar 14, 2012 6:46 pm |
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Pretends the bricks at St. Anthony Main are the PaveJoined: Sat Jan 05, 2008 10:35 pmPosts: 2924Location: So.MPLS
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Yah - I hear ya, but it's trickier than that. This is bike/walk facility, not a bike-only route. They need to have some amenities in there for peds, too whether you agree with it or not. Often bikes and pedestrians get grouped together because their interests are more aligned than not, but sometimes they don't line up 100%. The fact that the RiverLake connects to two neighborhood parks is a positive. The fact that we cyclists have stop signs at the bottom of two hills is a negative but it helps peds, so I can live with it. It's not the midtown greenway or some bike-superhighway, so I am happy with the compromise.
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Shizzy
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Posted: Wed Mar 14, 2012 8:32 pm |
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Can't... stop... doing... the Monkey TagJoined: Tue Jun 15, 2010 6:22 amPosts: 1369Location: Regina
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I decided to take 17th home from work today.
I tend to avoid Chicago, Park and Portland due to traffic volume and use Oakland to go north and 5th to go south when I'm headed to or from the Greenway. those two streets seem to work great for me as I live on Portland. However, during the warm months I find portions of 5th to be a little sketchy in the afternoon.
However, 17th is a wonderful street to ride on. Wide and flat with fewer stop signs. I did try the crossing on 42nd and wasn't 100% on its construction ( I understand its temporary) but did appreciate the spot to stop halfway across.
I may have found a new North / South connector to the Greenway. Ill be sure to call 311 to give my opinion.
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jim_h
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Posted: Wed Mar 14, 2012 9:00 pm |
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| Could use a bike fitJoined: Wed Apr 16, 2008 3:53 pmPosts: 1016Location: Old Cyclists' Home
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Snak Shak wrote: Yah - I hear ya, but it's trickier than that. This is bike/walk facility, not a bike-only route. They need to have some amenities in there for peds, too whether you agree with it or not. Often bikes and pedestrians get grouped together because their interests are more aligned than not, but sometimes they don't line up 100%. The fact that the RiverLake connects to two neighborhood parks is a positive. The fact that we cyclists have stop signs at the bottom of two hills is a negative but it helps peds, so I can live with it. It's not the midtown greenway or some bike-superhighway, so I am happy with the compromise. Confused - I thought 40th was a "bicycle boulevard". When you say "facility" are you talking about the park? Your points are valid; but there's a saying that sometimes peope "vote with their feet" or in this case, their wheels. Given the big dip by the park, the stop sign at the bottom, and that endless "beg button" light at 40th & Cedar, I find that I just say "screw it" and ride down 42nd. But of course others may react differently. In general I totally support bike boulevards and I think they work. We're talking here about a stretch that I think does not.
_________________ Probably too old to be posting here but what the heck... |
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Snak Shak
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Posted: Wed Mar 14, 2012 10:00 pm |
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Pretends the bricks at St. Anthony Main are the PaveJoined: Sat Jan 05, 2008 10:35 pmPosts: 2924Location: So.MPLS
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We agree, actually. You are an "A" level rider and pick your route based on directness, speed, convenience, etc. and are not concerned with higher traffic. I have heard these types of riders also described as "strong and fearless". I am a A as well. That's a small minority of cyclists, though. The biggest group of cyclists (something like 68%) are "interested but concerned". They are less comfortable with traffic, avoid busy crossings, prefer off-street paths, etc. In my opinion, bike boulevards are more helpful for the majority of "interested but concerned" riders and less for the experienced/fearless ones (who don't need bike lanes and go anywhere they want to already).
I tend to use 38th or 42nd to go east-west because it avoids hills and stop signs and I am happy to dance with cars. My wife prefers the RiverLake precisely because it's slower, has less traffic and the sharrows make her feel like she has more standing being out there as a cyclist.
The fact of the matter is that most of the "serious cyclists" don't need the infrastructure as much as the fair-weather cyclists, so we are kind of poor judges of what works and what doesn't (in my humble opinion).
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eazydp
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Posted: Wed Mar 14, 2012 10:58 pm |
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Bunny-hopperJoined: Fri Apr 22, 2011 1:42 pmPosts: 6Location: HPDL
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I'd consider myself an "A" level rider. However, I have evolved my commuter routes to where I maximize safety whenever possible with the minimal sacrifice of speed, oh and avoiding hills because I'm lazy  . Overall, the "rider type" thought is a an eye-opening take on this conversation. When I am considering bike infrastructure, I am considering it for my normal use case, commuting on it. I hadn't considered that RiverLake might not be targeted for that use. The 5th St Bike Blvd is a great example of a nice balance. It is certainly a bit slower than riding on 4th/Uni bike lanes, but you avoid the "disappearing" bike lanes near Dinkytown and the death trap 35W interstate entrances. I hope Southern will lean a bit more "A" level, I feel like it has much more potential as a commuter route than RiverLake. Especially to south mpls to UMN. Even with the issues on, I prefer these projects to the "hey, let's paint a bike lane on every major road in minneapolis evar, that'll make it safe!!" method.
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Shizzy
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Posted: Fri Apr 06, 2012 7:05 pm |
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Can't... stop... doing... the Monkey TagJoined: Tue Jun 15, 2010 6:22 amPosts: 1369Location: Regina
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looks like they removed the median.
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