Then please don't ask me off topic questions. Or if you'd like I can ignore off-topic questions.

I really don't see what the issue is. I have been issued about 5 lectures about female cycling after dark or during the winter. Only two of those came from women, the rest came from yuppie types that started their "marketing sphel" about cycling products.

Most of the "condescending remarks" I recieve are about other cyclist who refuse to follow traffic laws.

cycling is something you do to get from point a to point b, its not a merit badge.

Possibly I don't get the same remarks because I am considerably older, and quite frankly no-cream puff.

cycling is a form of exercise and transportation, if you work to brand yourself with it it will only draw those "condescending remarks".

Most of the crap I get about cycling comes from cyclist trying to be cool. I am to damn old for that crap and really don't have the time for it.

Sorry.

@alwaysflat think she was talking to me. My fault.

I haven't had very many negative interactions with non-bikers about my..."hobby," but I appreciate nonetheless the supportive stories here. I think it's a good moment for FEMINIST HULK (@feministhulk), who says


Emphasis on the HULK NOT ALONE part.

One thing that clicked for me recently was the idea of riding a bike in heels. I have a friend who has expressed interest in biking but we both thought her preferred footwear would cause a problem. Regardless of your personal decision to wear, or not wear, heels while riding, there are people out there who do it, and blog about it. Trisha at Let's Go Ride a Bike wrote about her new shoes recently in an analysis of reasons these ones didn't work out and all of her other high heels are better. I sent that link along and hopefully, post tax-return, we'll be going out to buy a bike!
The link in question. Is there a fancy way to embed them with text here?
http://letsgorideabike.com/blog/2011/03/riding-in-heels-fail/

I really don't get the condescending remarks.

A woman walking alone, for example, at night, tends to be an easier target. Sorry if that offends, but it's true. Both due to cultural stereotypes, the victim of the gender during stranger sexual assaults, and due to biology -- women tend to be smaller. It isn't right, and it sucks, but a robbery is going to pick an easy target, and women are assumed to be weaker. (Alas, very little work has been done to make criminals equal opportunity muggers.)

But a person on a bicycle isn't worried about being a victim of a mugging or a rape. They are worried about some asshat in a SUV plowing them down while chatting on a cell phone and sipping their mocha during an illegal turn. That's gender neutral.

So why are women treated differently?

I can think of two reasons.

1. Women are less capable then men, even at biking.
2. Men's lives are valued less than women.

Both are pretty offensive.

Dasunt, your entire comment above confuses me.

You don't get the condescending remarks? Because girls are supposedly such great targets we shouldn't bike or walk or really be outside at night or alone. We're obviously weaker and need to be protected by a big metal machine such as a car.

Women don't need to think about being mugged or raped while on a bike? Really? I know plenty of people, men included, that have been mugged while biking. Someone jumps out of the bushes and pushes the biker over or uses a stick of some sort to stop the bike. I think there are plenty of stories on this forum of people being attacked while on their bikes.

Did you know that in most crimes the attacker matches the victim's demography? A young black male is most likely to attack a young black male. An older white female is most likely to attack an older white female, etc.

As for rape, stranger rape is incredibly rare. The fear of rape is used to justify keeping women inside or protected, but inside her own home is where a woman is most likely to be attacked, most often by a lover or a family member.

I reread the post and it makes more sense, but I'm still confused.
Please elablorate.

Sorry about that.

Just a little disclaimer before I continue. I like to try to figure out how people think. I'd rather know why they say what they are saying. That doesn't mean I agree with it.

If someone is wrong, and you're trying to change their mind, I find it useful to know why they came to the wrong conclusion.



Did I say that? No. I did say that a target that is perceived to be weaker is going to be a more desirable target. I also said, on average, women are going to be smaller than men, since H. Sapiens has a slight sexual dimorphism. All other things being equal, the average woman will still have the size difference disadvantage.

Criminals do not treat all potential victims equally.



It's possible to be robbed on a bike, but the risk is lower than that of a pedestrian, if, for nothing else, a bicyclist will take less time than a pedestrian to cover the same distance. It narrows the window of risk. One could also argue that, from a crime perspective, a bicyclist traveling in the streets is probably a less tempting target than a pedestrian walking on the sidewalk near blind corners, hedges, and other potential hiding places.

So if biking, from a crime perspective, is less dangerous than walking, what do people mean when they say that "bicycling is a dangerous activity for a single young woman"?

Or, to put it another way, if the young woman in question says "okay, I'll walk instead", will the questioner be relieved, or think that the bicyclist-now-pedestrian will be in equal or more danger?

Why do they think that cycling is a dangerous activity? The "young women" part seems to think that they assume that there's a specific risk to that demographic. Why?

Or perhaps I'm reading too much into the statement. Perhaps the person in question just mentally categorized the bicyclist in the "young woman" category, and used that as a verbal placeholder. Perhaps the questioner would have easily said "young man" if the gender was reversed. But I doubt that is the case.



Did you know that the crime rate has been dropping? But most people's perception of crime is that it's going up?

While I applaud you for trying to get out those statistics (and yes, I knew of them), people's perceptions, right or wrong, influence what they say.

And I'd rather like to know the "why" behind their statement.

Perhaps that's a good response to any person who hears the statement in the thread's title: Asking "Why do you think bicycling is a dangerous activity for young women?"

/I'm sorry, I think I wrote another rambling, disorganized post. Ugh.

Alwaysflat, what happened is that you made a generalization about a certain gender and I was trying to politely clue you in to your mistake. We try to keep this thread generalization free, and open to learning from and about each other in a respectful manner.

dasunt, I got pretty lost reading your post. If you're asking why people are being condescending toward me... I'm not sure they even mean to do it. It's just whatever societal conditioning is in place that sometimes makes some older people talk down to younger people, and some men talk down to women, and some people that drive cars to talk down to people that ride bikes.

I'm not sure I care about the psychology behind why people are concerned about my safety.

Mostly I care about sticking up for myself and saying NO I’m not going to get a car because riding a bike is too dangerous, I’m NOT going to restrict myself from going outside without a large, male, escort and I’m NOT your child.

The way I live is not open for debate, even though people often feel entitled to give their opinion. Regardless of whether you think I’m a more attractive victim than someone else, I am not going to change my lifestyle. In other words: Haters, stop hating!

“I’m not afraid of the same things that you are.”

Sometimes, when it comes up, mention that I bike mostly year round (I cheat sometimes), at night. Some say "Isn't that dangerous?". I've never been told, like I've seen on this thread, that I am putting myself in danger. Maybe it has to do with the age-group I'm associated with, but most people don't think about biking as a different way of commuting or getting around the city. Which I like.

It sucks to hear that some of you get told that because you're women you're putting your lives in danger. I can't imagine the headache that causes. I really wish people wouldn't see it as a gender thing. I don't think people tell women that they're putting their lives in danger because they're driving to and from downtown Mon-Fri 9am-5pm.

I almost see it as this. I'm short. When I started rugby in highschool my friends and family said "You're short. You're putting yourself in danger because everyone else is 3 times your size". I can't tell you how much it put me off to the people I hung out with. Size, gender, race, etc. holds no bearing on how dangerous biking is at 3am in the morning. You can't even tell the difference!

Anyway, nice to hear that ya'll can just shrug it off. Kudos.

Side note: I feel more in danger when I drive to work instead of bike. 394 sucks.

So I can't break your forum communication rules in other words. Isn't that similar to people walking up to cyclist women and telling them its "dangerous activity"?

Give me a list of types of comments that offend you so in the future I can avoid your ire. Its your opinion its a generalization, and its rather controlling to inform a person how they are to communicate.

Yah, it's a pile of brain vomit that barely sticks together.

I have this annoying tendency to over-explain some things, while totally skipping over other things that I think is obvious but doesn't seem to be that way to most people.

It doesn't help that I tend to compose posts when I'm otherwise preoccupied or in a rush.



What are you trying to accomplish when you stick up for yourself?



Opinion and debate are two different things.

There's plenty of opinions out there. Just turn on the news and listen to the first politician that comes on. Very little debate though. Which is probably part of the problem. We feel free to say what we believe, and in our right to do so, but we are not as willing to engage in debate.



Dasunt likes this.

When I stick up for myself I'm hoping that my friends and associates that give me grief for transporting myself by bicycle will think about what they are saying before they hassle me.

When they say, "Be CAREFUL out there!!" I say, "You too! See you tomorrow!" When they say, "I wish you cyclists would wear reflective vests, because I can't see you when I'm driving and I don't want to hit someone riding a bike," I say, "If you can't see bikers without reflective vests, you should get your eyes checked and try slowing down."

I also need to assert that I'm not a representative of all cyclists everywhere. Complain to someone else about cyclists that don't wear helmets or bike erratically or ride at night with no lights. Because that ain't me. And I have two awesome parents that have the right and responsibility to worry about me and make me feel guilty about putting myself in danger. I don't need anyone older than me to feel like they need to fill that role in my life. I tend to walk away when someone starts a conversation with, "I would never let *my* daughter..."

“I’m not afraid of the same things that you are.”

;]

alwaysflat, you got called out for being over the top in your post where there was some generalizing based on gender. If you look through some of the threads here "Men do x, and Women do y" posts generally don't go over well. It's not personal.

We all ride bikes here= same team.

DERBY POST!

Do they know you are using lights at night?