No bar within miles of that intersection? Have you been to downtown Hopkins?

The MGM store in Minnetonka is the most profitable liquor store in the state? Where are you getting that stat?

I grew up in Mtka and we didn't need sidewalks because we all lived in dead catacombs of caldesacs. The sooner you put sidewalks in the suburbs the sooner you have drivers telling cyclists to get out of the road.

Where are you getting the stat about breathalyzer rates?

I have to agree. I grew up in Minnetonka. I returned to Minnetonka 7 years ago. I love living in this city, some of the best bike infrastructural of the western suburbs & you see bikes everywhere! Remember when you talk about Minnetonka, it's like talking about Bloomington, these are huge suburbs and were developed over many decades. Some areas are better than others, depending on the era they were built.

Andrew's death is a tragedy, not a failing on the part of Minnetonka/Hopkins. Here are quotes from the stories linked in this thread:



{I added the bold to the key issues in this tragedy}

Such a tragedy
Ill never understand why some people insist on riding against traffic.

I did some dumb shit when i was young. *2 when using fireworks and/or on a bike.

I shrug when i see kids ride against traffic or without lights/helmet, I cringe when I see adults do the same thing

So they can see the cars.

This. I think there's a belief (usually among kids and the DWI handlebar gang) that it makes you more visible, coupled with anxiety about cars coming up behind you. It's one of the most frustrating things to see, both as a cyclist and a car driver.

I passed two of them today on a five-mile stretch of 120 in White Bear Lake. Eeeee. One guy in his 20s, and one in his 40s. It was scary -- the shoulders are wide, but not enough for two bikes going opposite directions!

Is it a suburban thing? I've occasionally seen it in the cities, but never twice in a row like that. (Two in five miles is a perfectly valid sample, right?)

Yeah. And when they see a car is about to hit them, they can hit the ejection seat button and fly to safety.

Riiiight - so what if they can see the traffic coming right at them, it will probably be too late to do anything, and doesnt really help either party. Thus my confusion.

My take on the riding against traffic problem, is that the potential energy that goes into a crash is higher if you are closing with a vehicle as opposed to riding with traffic and being overtaken by the vehicle. So lets say I'am biking with traffic at 15 mph and a car going 30 rear ends me. The speed of impact would be 15 mph whereas if I was biking against traffic the speed of impact would be 45 mph. Couple this with the dynamics of how the body would impact the vehicle. With traffic, hit from behind you might roll backward over the hood or be thrown forward towards the ground with enough room to avoid being run over by the vehicle. Against traffic, you would be almost certainly thown head first into the wind shield or other forward part of the vehicle. I think it would be far better to be struck from behind because chances are it would be a glancing blow that would throw me to the side of the roadway or ditch. I avoid the problem of vehicles coming up on me unexpectedly by wearing a helmet with a mirror. That and riding VERY defensively and aware of my surroundings. I asked a suburban cop one time if they teach kids out in the suburbs to ride against traffic and he vehemently said no. So like everything else it comes down to enforcement and education. Another way to look at this is if you were riding against traffic and a vehicle was about to hit you, you would likely tense up and freeze your muscles. If you were riding with traffic and a vehicle were about to hit you from behind and you weren't aware of its approach, you would be loose and relaxed when it hit you and might suffer less from it.

I know a few liquor store owners who had been propositioned to be bought out by this group of owners who own MGM in Hopkins.

Breathalyzer rates vary according to source, I attend alnon from time to time and volunteer with organizations which address substance abuse issues. I am not in recovery because I don't have issues; but I have relatives who won't entertain the idea of soberity.

So you grew up in a development i did not.

And minnetonka like it's neighboring suburbs are largely sidewalk free, very few street lights, poorly designed intersections for cycling and foot traffic.

It will take decades to change that because.the reason why homeowners choose minnetonka is for the seclusion and because they drive every where. They prefer neighbors who drive every where as well.

A few bike trails through a few disconnected parks doesn't put minnetonka on the bike culture map.

Driving in from minnetonka to race in packs on a more urban trail system because all 10 of them don't want to cycle the 13 miles into the city and lose precious energy for sprints, does not make minnetonka a cycling destination.

Yeah the kid did do a number of stupid choices that lead to his death, but look at the cycling local denizens he learns from.

I totally

I totally disagree with this.

Minnetonka is like a cycling mecca for me. I live there now and have for awhile. I grew up northwest of it on the edge of what could be considered the suburbs. The regional trail that cuts through Minnetonka is easily accessible and leads to the nearby Hopkins Depot and 2 bicycle shops. Now, where I grew up, it's all about cars, cars, cars. Only kids rode bikes. We don't have bike shops for 20 miles. MUPs? Not one. Everyone who had bikes rode mountain bikes. I remember getting a nice bike shop road bike when I was 14 for my birthday from an aunt that lived in Minneapolis. Guess what I did? I thought the thing was so ugly with it's twisted rams-horn handlebars and skinny tires that I had my parents sell it to someone back in the cities so I could go to Target and get a 'nice' mountain bike like all my friends had. I wanted nothing to do with a weird road bike.

You really need to be grateful for what you have at all. Most of our roads didn't have sidewalks so we walked our dogs and rode in the road. I suppose that's the one thing I can be grateful for that I learned to do early vs a kid growing up with sidewalks everywhere - and believe me, I see Minnetonka as having a plethora of sidewalks, trails, scenic areas to bike to, ect.

Anyways, you really need to be in a stark situation for you to appreciate Minnetonka as a cycling destination - and trust me, I do. If I want to go to Calhoun or the Greenway where all the 'serious' cyclist hang I can easily use a MUP to get there. There was no such animal where I grew up. It's nice, frankly.

Wow, and I thought all the bike lanes and trails out here were nice. And every nice day I see tons of other riders, both on the road and on the trail.

Whodathunk that Mtka was cycling hell?!?!?!? Thanks for letting me know, I must be doing it wrong

I am with Tonkabiker - As I said earlier, I spent my first 18 years in Minnetonka and the last 7 years too. I ride Minnetonka everyday on my commute. I also regularly ride in Plymouth, Eden Prairie, Hopkins, St Louis Park and of course Minneapolis. I biked Minnetonka back in the early 80s when I was 14 - my family couldn't afford bus-service to get me to St Louis Park for school (long story). I have enough experience to talk about this subject (biking Minnetonka).

Every day on my PM commute, I am happy to get back into Minnetonka from Eden Prairie! EP has truly awful bike infrastructure.

Minnetonka is not perfect, but it's MUCH better than its neighbors to the north and south. Minnetonka, like EP and Plymouth are catacombs of caldesacs - the only through streets are county roads. In EP and Plymouth, the county roads are 4-lane, 40 to 50 mph roads with no shoulder (maybe a poorly designed MUP). In Minnetonka, most county roads have a shoulder (bike route). Baker Rd/Plymouth Rd (CR 61), Minnetonka Blvd (CR 5), McGinty Rd (CR 16), Excelsior Blvd (CR 3). Many of these county roads leave Minnetonka and lose the shoulder and become 4-lane roads. Recent example - EP refused to convert Baker Rd to a 3-lane road last fall (forum on Baker Rd conversion http://bit.ly/JSVqew).

What s/he said ^^^^
Pretty much summed up what I was thinking, but couldnt put into words at the time. Thanks.